Comments on: The War on Dog Owners http://dunnsmarshlabs.com/bbfarmblog/2009/01/the-war-on-dog-owners/ life in the country with our dogs, horses and donkeys Tue, 27 Dec 2011 16:19:42 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.2 By: bbfarm http://dunnsmarshlabs.com/bbfarmblog/2009/01/the-war-on-dog-owners/comment-page-1/#comment-26 bbfarm Tue, 20 Jan 2009 22:57:49 +0000 http://dunnsmarshlabs.com/bbfarmblog/?p=45#comment-26 Thanks everyone for the interesting (and polite) discussion about my post. Thanks everyone for the interesting (and polite) discussion about my post.

]]> By: Barb Hartsook http://dunnsmarshlabs.com/bbfarmblog/2009/01/the-war-on-dog-owners/comment-page-1/#comment-23 Barb Hartsook Tue, 20 Jan 2009 14:48:10 +0000 http://dunnsmarshlabs.com/bbfarmblog/?p=45#comment-23 As always, there are good reasons for pushing through laws that become limiting and ultimately bad. Susan said it well: Forcing people to make moral decisions -- or even just good ones! -- through legislation never works. Interesting discussion, however. I have often wondered about the type of service dog Bean has. (Besides that, I am curious about many things, this issue now being one of them.) Deb, I wish you well with your blog... As always, there are good reasons for pushing through laws that become limiting and ultimately bad. Susan said it well: Forcing people to make moral decisions — or even just good ones! — through legislation never works.

Interesting discussion, however. I have often wondered about the type of service dog Bean has. (Besides that, I am curious about many things, this issue now being one of them.)

Deb, I wish you well with your blog…

]]> By: Susan http://dunnsmarshlabs.com/bbfarmblog/2009/01/the-war-on-dog-owners/comment-page-1/#comment-22 Susan Tue, 20 Jan 2009 03:53:50 +0000 http://dunnsmarshlabs.com/bbfarmblog/?p=45#comment-22 Yes there are good breeders and bad breeders. There are good people and bad people. Making people make moral decisions by making a law does not work. I do not allow my dogs to breed indiscriminately so why should I be punished for other people's wrongs? I prefer to keep my dogs intacted for health reasons. Another sore subject--the misinformation about how healthy early spaying and neutering is. Why must I loose my freedoms because of other people. This is suppose to be America the land of the free. It is becoming America the land of the whoever has the most money can get their laws passed whether right or wrong. Thank you Deb for posting this! It is near and dear to many of us who have dogs purebred or mixes. And yes, it is a myth that mixes are healthier than purebreds. My purebred Labs are wonderfully healthy and happy! Yes there are good breeders and bad breeders. There are good people and bad people. Making people make moral decisions by making a law does not work. I do not allow my dogs to breed indiscriminately so why should I be punished for other people’s wrongs? I prefer to keep my dogs intacted for health reasons. Another sore subject–the misinformation about how healthy early spaying and neutering is. Why must I loose my freedoms because of other people. This is suppose to be America the land of the free. It is becoming America the land of the whoever has the most money can get their laws passed whether right or wrong.

Thank you Deb for posting this! It is near and dear to many of us who have dogs purebred or mixes.

And yes, it is a myth that mixes are healthier than purebreds. My purebred Labs are wonderfully healthy and happy!

]]> By: Deb http://dunnsmarshlabs.com/bbfarmblog/2009/01/the-war-on-dog-owners/comment-page-1/#comment-21 Deb Tue, 20 Jan 2009 00:21:05 +0000 http://dunnsmarshlabs.com/bbfarmblog/?p=45#comment-21 Bean — Sorry to hear your goldens had health issues. If they were from the same breeder I hope you let them know — I would want to know if I were that breeder. It is very sad to read about yet another puppy mill bust. They did not mention the breeds but I would bet on small mixed breeds rather than large purebreds were what were there. I’m glad your golden poodle is doing fine and a good working companion for you but in Australia they stopped breeding them for service dogs due to health issues I’ve been told. The lab poodle mixes can have three different coat types, 2 of which are NOT hypoallergenic and we have gotten those into rescue when their owners find out their child is allergic to this dog that was touted as hypoallergenic to them and isn’t. I have 3 Labs of my breeding currently being trained under harness at a guide dog group here in WI (Occupaws) and this group is very happy with these healthy, good temperamented dogs and is only using purebreds. As for hybid vigor, it is just a myth. If those who purposely breed two different breeds together are not x-raying hips, elbows, checking eyes, etc. there is as much chance of you getting a golden mix with issues as there is with a purebred golden as the problem genes of the two breeds can double up. Because most breeding those mixes do not check these things they are not in the OFA data base so there is no way of tracking any health issues within a blood line. I refer you to this part of the above post: “Adorable mixed breeds” get cancer, epilepsy, allergies, heart disease, and orthopedic problems just like purebreds. I see it every day in my veterinary practice but mixed breed dogs aren’t tracked like the purebreds so they have a reputation as “healthier” that is actually undeserved in many cases.” “It is so sad that a lot of folks, including young veterinarians these days, buy into the “hybrid vigor” baloney. The vet schools have been infiltrated by the Animal Rights Extremists, who are teaching them this junk science in order to push their agenda.” As someone who has been active in rescue and teaching dog training for almost 20 years I have seen more than my share of mixes with hip dysplasia, skin issues, seizures and temperament problems. Our shepherd husky mix had eye and kidney issues. Our current mix puppy (may be pit mixed with hound or lab) came to us with skin issues which we are working on. And then there is the person I know who got a pug mix and bragged to me the dog would never have eye problems, unlike my pugs. The next week the dog was having surgery for “cherry eye” (came from the beagle half of the mix). I have also seen some pug beagle mixes with horrible skin/allergy problems not to mention their extremely hyper termperaments and barking which I could not handle. Hybrid vigor is definitely a myth, used mainly by puppy mills who are promoting their various “designer dog” mixed breeds as that is a good sales pitch for them. Bean — Sorry to hear your goldens had health issues. If they were from the same breeder I hope you let them know — I would want to know if I were that breeder. It is very sad to read about yet another puppy mill bust. They did not mention the breeds but I would bet on small mixed breeds rather than large purebreds were what were there.

I’m glad your golden poodle is doing fine and a good working companion for you but in Australia they stopped breeding them for service dogs due to health issues I’ve been told. The lab poodle mixes can have three different coat types, 2 of which are NOT hypoallergenic and we have gotten those into rescue when their owners find out their child is allergic to this dog that was touted as hypoallergenic to them and isn’t.

I have 3 Labs of my breeding currently being trained under harness at a guide dog group here in WI (Occupaws) and this group is very happy with these healthy, good temperamented dogs and is only using purebreds.

As for hybid vigor, it is just a myth. If those who purposely breed two different breeds together are not x-raying hips, elbows, checking eyes, etc. there is as much chance of you getting a golden mix with issues as there is with a purebred golden as the problem genes of the two breeds can double up. Because most breeding those mixes do not check these things they are not in the OFA data base so there is no way of tracking any health issues within a blood line. I refer you to this part of the above post:

“Adorable mixed breeds” get cancer, epilepsy, allergies, heart disease, and orthopedic problems just like purebreds. I see it every day in my veterinary practice but mixed breed dogs aren’t tracked like
the purebreds so they have a reputation as “healthier” that is actually undeserved in many cases.”

“It is so sad that a lot of folks, including young veterinarians these days, buy into the “hybrid vigor” baloney. The vet schools have been infiltrated by the Animal Rights Extremists, who are teaching them this junk science in order to push their agenda.”

As someone who has been active in rescue and teaching dog training for almost 20 years I have seen more than my share of mixes with hip dysplasia, skin issues, seizures and temperament problems.
Our shepherd husky mix had eye and kidney issues. Our current mix puppy (may be pit mixed with hound or lab) came to us with skin issues which we are working on. And then there is the person I know who got a pug mix and bragged to me the dog would never have eye problems, unlike my pugs. The next week the dog was having surgery for “cherry eye” (came from the beagle half of the mix). I have also seen some pug beagle mixes with horrible skin/allergy problems not to mention their extremely hyper termperaments and barking which I could not handle. Hybrid vigor is definitely a myth, used mainly by puppy mills who are promoting their various “designer dog” mixed breeds as that is a good sales pitch for them.

]]> By: Bean http://dunnsmarshlabs.com/bbfarmblog/2009/01/the-war-on-dog-owners/comment-page-1/#comment-19 Bean Mon, 19 Jan 2009 17:52:45 +0000 http://dunnsmarshlabs.com/bbfarmblog/?p=45#comment-19 This is a really emotional topic for me. The first headline I saw this morning was a plea for donations to help care for 155 dogs rescued from a puppy mill just north of me http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/28722895 It didn't help that I was reading it while my Goldendoodle puppy was giving my hand an enthusiastic bath! There is a huge difference between responsible breeders and puppy mills, I can barely include them in the same sentence! That being said, I do worry about over breeding in certain breeds, particularly Golden Retrievers. I have been a lifelong Golden fan and have owned four but I won't own another. All four had health problems and poor Fergus had yo wear a huge foam collar 4-5 months out of the year, his allergies were so bad :( When it came to needing a service dog, a Goldendoodle was a logical choice: sweet, loyal, smart, hypoallergenic. Ebony has to support my weight to break my falls and is in excellent health. The hybrid vigor is a big selling point for service dogs. It isn't only vets but service dog trainers that singing the praises of hybrid vigor. It is just my personal experience but I have been impressed. Maybe Brutus, the goldendoodle puppy has a different idea though. He has never been as jealous of this laptop as he was while I wast typing this! This is a really emotional topic for me. The first headline I saw this morning was a plea for donations to help care for 155 dogs rescued from a puppy mill just north of me http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/28722895
It didn’t help that I was reading it while my Goldendoodle puppy was giving my hand an enthusiastic bath! There is a huge difference between responsible breeders and puppy mills, I can barely include them in the same sentence! That being said, I do worry about over breeding in certain breeds, particularly Golden Retrievers. I have been a lifelong Golden fan and have owned four but I won’t own another. All four had health problems and poor Fergus had yo wear a huge foam collar 4-5 months out of the year, his allergies were so bad :(
When it came to needing a service dog, a Goldendoodle was a logical choice: sweet, loyal, smart, hypoallergenic. Ebony has to support my weight to break my falls and is in excellent health. The hybrid vigor is a big selling point for service dogs. It isn’t only vets but service dog trainers that singing the praises of hybrid vigor. It is just my personal experience but I have been impressed.
Maybe Brutus, the goldendoodle puppy has a different idea though. He has never been as jealous of this laptop as he was while I wast typing this!

]]> By: Sliloh http://dunnsmarshlabs.com/bbfarmblog/2009/01/the-war-on-dog-owners/comment-page-1/#comment-18 Sliloh Mon, 19 Jan 2009 16:17:18 +0000 http://dunnsmarshlabs.com/bbfarmblog/?p=45#comment-18 Yeah, people get rabid about it I know. There are bad breeders everywhere...look at the unwanted and unloved kids in this world. :p That hardly means everyone should stop. Anita Yeah, people get rabid about it I know. There are bad breeders everywhere…look at the unwanted and unloved kids in this world. :p That hardly means everyone should stop.

Anita

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